S05E97 - Unmasking Online Reviews: Truths and Tricks in Plastic Surgery

Have you ever wondered how much you can trust online reviews, especially when it comes to something as critical as plastic surgery? In our latest episode, we tackle the ethical minefield of online reviews in the cosmetic industry, sparked a recent high-profile case involving a Seattle surgeon fined for manipulating reviews and intimidating patients. We'll discuss the importance of honest patient feedback and the far-reaching consequences of review manipulation. Join us as we uncover the ethical dilemmas that arise when doctors are hindered by HIPAA laws from responding to negative reviews and how genuine, detailed testimonials can guide potential patients in making informed decisions.

But it’s not all serious business—we also celebrate the uplifting power of positive patient reviews. Tune in for some heartwarming anecdotes and firsthand accounts of patient satisfaction with Dr. Sam Jejurikar @samjejurikar, Dr. Salvatore Pacella @sandiegoplasticsurgeon, Dr. Lawrence Tong @yorkvilleplasticsurgery, and Dr. Sam Rhee @bergencosmetic. We share these stories with a touch of humor, contemplating the idea of insuring our invaluable hands, and highlight why online reviews are a crucial element in building a surgeon's reputation. This episode promises a balanced blend of serious ethical discussion and light-hearted moments, making it a must-listen for anyone interested in the world of plastic surgery.Tune in for expert advice on navigating the real story behind those glowing (and not-so-glowing) reviews in the world of plastic surgery.

#MedicalPodcast @3plasticsurgerypodcast #podcast #plasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgery #plasticsurgeon #beauty #boardcertified #aesthetic #3plasticsurgeonsandamicrophone ⁠#bergencosmetic ⁠#bestplasticsurgeon #beforeafter #aesthetics #realpatientrealresult #boardcertifiedplasticsurgeon #njplasticsurgeon #njplasticsurgery #nyplasticsurgeon #nyplasticsurgery

S05E97 - Unmasking Online Reviews: Truths and Tricks in Plastic Surgery

TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:06] Dr. Sam Rhee: Alright, welcome to another episode of Three Plastic Surgeons and a Fourth, and I have my esteemed colleagues, Dr. Salvatore Pacella in La Jolla, California, his Instagram handle is at San Diego Plastic Surgeon, Dr. Lawrence Tong from Toronto, Canada, and his Instagram handle is at Yorkville Plastic Surgery, and Dr.

Sam Jejurikar in Dallas, Texas, His Instagram handle is at Sam Jejurikar, and I am as always in Paramus, New Jersey, and my Instagram handle is at Bergen Cosmetic. We have, uh, a topic today which I think is very relevant, um, especially for consumers of plastic surgery. Anyone who's trying to find a good plastic surgery, uh, surgeon. often use reviews to determine what's good or what's not good out there. I know I do when I look at Amazon or any other, um, or pretty much anything else. I look and see what other people have said. Recently, there was a Seattle cosmetic surgeon who has to pay 5, 000, sorry, 5 million to the state's attorney general's office after thousands of people accused were, uh, After being accused of illegally manipulating online customer reviews and threatening patients.

So before we get into the meat of this, let's have. Disclaimer, uh, read out, was it Dr. Tong?

[00:01:27] Dr. Lawrence Tong: Yes, I will read that. Thank you. Um, this show is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is for informational purposes only. Treatment and results may vary based upon the circumstances, situation, and medical judgment after appropriate discussion. Always seek the advice of your surgeon or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding medical care.

Never disregard professional medical advice or delay seeking advice because of something on this show.

[00:01:54] Dr. Sam Rhee: So this, uh, topic is a recent news article, uh, from the Seattle Times where the State Attorney General, uh, resolved a lawsuit filed against Dr. Javed Sejian and his company Allure Aesthetic, uh, He was accused of violating state and federal consumer protection laws by posting fake reviews and forcing patients to sign non disclosure agreements.

Uh, he is required to pay 1. 5 million to about 21, 000, uh, patients who will receive a letter from the Attorney General with a check of either 50 or 120, depending on each patient's situation. And the rest of it will go for attorney fees and costs, of course. So Um, what, uh, this, uh, just of note, uh, Dr.

Sajjan is not a board certified plastic surgeon. Uh, he has no record of completing a plastic surgery residency and, uh, he is actually certified through the American Board of Otolaryngology head and neck surgery. Uh, I'd like to hear your comments first about this and then just reviews in general.

[00:03:06] Dr. Sam Jejurikar: I think reviews, um, obviously are very important in our line of work. Um, but, um, it's, it's not a system that you can, sorry, is that Pacella's phone again? Uh,

[00:03:18] Dr. Salvatore Pacella: trying

[00:03:19] Dr. Sam Jejurikar: sorry.

[00:03:19] Dr. Lawrence Tong: Tell your attorneys to stop calling.

[00:03:21] Dr. Salvatore Pacella: now. Yeah, it's another patient. I get, I get a zing every time I get a patient review. There's another bad one.

[00:03:28] Dr. Sam Jejurikar: geez. Yeah. I mean, patient reviews are, are tough because you know, if you are, uh, Buying some sort of widget from Amazon, you can write a review and the, uh, the, the store can respond back in terms of what they think. But with HIPAA laws that are out there right now, patients have the ability to say anything they want about us, and we can't discuss the nature of the case.

And so they're, they're very much a one sided thing. Um, You know, the key thing, though, is that, in general, you know, if you have a thousand patients, if 999 of them are positive and one of them is negative about you, it's that one that oftentimes is going to be motivated to write that review. So, I think most plastic surgeons that I know are proactive in getting their happy patients to write reviews.

There's a variety of apps that businesses can use to have their patients do that. And I know I certainly do that as well, but yeah, you can't manipulate reviews. It's too easy for these algorithms to figure out if you're doing that. And it's, it's, uh, not only unethical to do that, but it's also really easy to get caught doing that.

[00:04:32] Dr. Lawrence Tong: Yeah, I, I agree. Um, I think the best, um, sort of protection, so to speak, against negative reviews is just to, you know, try to encourage your happy patients to, to write reviews so that they get a more balanced, um, idea of, of what, uh, you know, how satisfied your patients are. Patients should understand that.

If you see somebody with, you know, perfect reviews all across the board, that, that actually should be a red flag. You're going to be, um, you know, potentially being manipulated at that point. I didn't look at this surgeon's review profile, but, uh, you know, it's likely that he had many, many, many thousands of reviews and all of them positive.

So. Um, I think that in general, actually, for us, if you have a negative reviewer too, that's actually adds to the credibility of, uh, of your, uh, review profile. But I, I do think it, it's important, you know, if you have a patient who seems very happy and you, um, you know, um, are, are comfortable in asking for a review or your staff is comfortable in asking for a review, I think that's something that's, that's positive

[00:05:46] Dr. Sam Rhee: United

[00:05:47] Dr. Lawrence Tong: A lot of times the response will be, yes, definitely.

I would, I would love to do that. I'm, you know, I'm so happy with, um, what, what you've done. And I found you through review. So it is, it is something that can be very positive. I,

[00:06:01] Dr. Salvatore Pacella: are obviously incredibly savvy, and they read these reviews, and it's a, so, you know, the reviews that actually have text and descriptions with them, the longer, the better, right? Um, the more detailed. Um, you know, I don't think there's really patients out there or a small percentage of them that just simply look at the oh, 4.

7 out of 5 type of thing, right? And I have found that, you know, in, in 15 years of practice, I've gotten hundreds and hundreds of reviews, mostly positive. Um, gotten a handful of bad reviews, and I would say that of those, most of those bad reviews, are people that I chose actually to not operate on, right?

And so, that may have had an issue with the, uh, waiting on hold, or waiting in the office, or didn't, you know, for some reason they didn't click, uh, with me as their surgeon. And, you know, I I stand by those reviews completely because, you know, it's not somebody that is complaining about a bad surgical result.

They're just complaining on the fact that I didn't offer them the operation that they thought they needed, right? And so, um, I think the lesson here is reading the reviews as a consumer and understanding how to, how to, how to translate that into your decision making.

[00:07:19] Dr. Sam Rhee: I think that's absolutely right. I mean, clearly this guy crossed the line into illegality. He was artificially inflating ratings on websites such as Yelp and Google. He posted fake reviews. He, uh, forced patients to sign illegal NDAs that banned them from posting or saying anything negative. And all of that stuff is completely illegal.

And I, I know that every plastic surgeon who's ethical and responsible will, would never do those. Those things. And I don't, and I know you guys don't, um, that being said, as all of you have said, reviews are very important for many patients in terms of determining whether or not, um, They want to see a plastic surgeon.

And as Sal said, it's not the, um, aggregate 4. 7, 4. 9. Um, and it's not, and as Larry said, if, if, and I have seen this, people are perfect, like they have, And every single one of them is glowing, short, uh, no detail, just he's the best or she's the best. You know, there's something kind of weird about that. And as Sal said, you really do have to read these reviews, you have to see the kind of detail they put into it.

Um, It's really hard as plastic surgeons to have patients write reviews, because think about it, as a consumer, I don't want to take any extra time writing a review for a lot of stuff either, um, but, uh, I think When we do talk to patients who've had really great results, um, a lot of them are happy to share their experience because what a review, a review is, is really word of mouth, right?

It's really someone who is sharing their experience as if they were next to you or in front of you saying, I saw Dr. Pacella, he was so nice, he did this, the results were like this, he took me through the process like this. And when you read a review like that, that is really detailed and, and kind of goes through what their experience is, it's really like getting a sense of, a very accurate sense of that surgeon.

Um, the handful of bad reviews that we've all had, um, I, I, you know, there's no way you could be in this business without getting a bad review or two. It's like meeting everyone in life and saying, everyone is nice, like not like that's impossible. And you're going to have people for whatever reason, um, have an ax to grind, or they just didn't jibe with you, or they just felt very angry or vindictive.

As Sal said, maybe not through, uh, our, um, uh, through our, or any fault of ours, but just. Sometimes poor communication, uh, um, unrealistic expectations, whatever. There are a million reasons why people may be upset. And as Sam said, it's really hard to respond to these reviews because we can't really go into the details.

We would love in many cases to go into the details why this particular person, um, if you knew why they were complaining, you would understand that this was not necessarily a reasonable viewpoint to hold. But. We're sort of handcuffed. We're not like a restaurant that could say, yeah, this person, like, stiffed the waiter.

They, like, you know, demanded 50 things and wouldn't pay because they're social media influencers and they threatened a bad review. Like, we, we can't talk about it. Um, so, uh, As Larry said, you have to take all of it in aggregate, uh, and understand that a bad review is the, is sometimes the price of doing business in this industry.

And if you read all of them on average, you'll get a good sense of who that provider is.

[00:11:01] Dr. Sam Jejurikar: Luckily, I think patient, uh, I think patients are, uh, are smart, you know, consumers in general are smart. And I think, um, like Larry was saying before, you see someone who is a 4. 7 or a 4. 8 or a 4. 9 rating, but they have a couple hundred reviews and you read those. A lot of times. You can gain valuable information and want to see that provider, even based off the negative reviews.

I know I've seen reviews about other plastic surgeons or myself that have maybe implied that they were expensive, or they had a busy wait time, or they had, um, you know, that, that they, they, they offered a different operation than what the patient actually wanted. And, and all of those, you know, Can be valuable.

Um, and aren't even necessary, even though the person writing the view may mean that in a negative sense, that can even be valuable for a consumer to get a sense. Well, this guy isn't going to tell me exactly what I want to hear. This guy's not cheap, so I need to know that before I go ahead of time. Oh, there's a long wait time.

This guy's busy. So, you know, I think people can, can read these reviews, read the text like Pacella was saying, and, and ultimately, um, gather whatever conclusions they want. And so I think all of us doing this podcast. Fairly lucky though, because we're beyond the midpoint of our careers. We're all doing well. I get a negative review. I mean, I'm, I'm affected by it, but not that affected by it. Just move on to the, to the, to the next thing. And a lot of patients come through other means too.

[00:12:31] Dr. Salvatore Pacella: you

[00:12:32] Dr. Lawrence Tong: yeah, I.

[00:12:32] Dr. Salvatore Pacella: something, uh, Just, I want to expand upon a little bit of a change of topic, which is, um, you mentioned, you know, in, you read a review and said, you know, hey, he gave me a different opinion than somebody else, right? Um, and, and you know, I, I just, for the, for the viewers out there, I, I just want to add this little bit of psychology here.

So there's a, there's a psychology behind second opinions, okay? And there's a fallacy here, which is that the second opinion is always the correct opinion, right? And so, when, when you see two different providers, and you see the second provider and say, that's nothing what the first doctor told me, thank God I saw you when I did.

Well, imagine if that was exactly the opposite, right? If it was, then, then the first opinion would be the correct opinion, right? So it's, you know, and it's important for consumers, I think, to be savvy about that and understand that, you know, this is, particularly when we're dealing with aesthetic surgery, cosmetic surgery, plastic surgery.

This is more of a technique or an art to making decisions than it is, you know, a I'm going to take a gallbladder out and there's only one way to do it, kind of thing.

[00:13:41] Dr. Sam Rhee: LaMole, DeWitt,

[00:13:44] Dr. Lawrence Tong: and, uh, something that,

[00:13:45] Dr. Sam Rhee: Cleary,

[00:13:47] Dr. Lawrence Tong: Dr. Jejurikar mentioned is, uh, you know, we're at a stage in our practices that. Reviews, you know, reviews are basically, if you're trying to get new clients, they're, they don't know you. And as you're mature, as your practice matures, you're going to have done thousands and thousands of surgeries during your career span.

And you're going to have a lot of direct word of mouth. A lot of patients who you've operated on, and then, you know, their friends come or their relatives come. And, you know, that, that is also a, um, A very significant portion of where, you know, my current patients, uh, come from. So these, you know, these reviews are important, maybe even more so for the, for the younger surgeons, but maybe not as much for mature surgeons like ourselves.

[00:14:39] Dr. Sam Rhee: You know, just for fun, I, I'm gonna, I pulled up, uh, no, go ahead, first you, Sam.

[00:14:45] Dr. Sam Jejurikar: I was, I wasn't going to say his name, but one of my mentors during my fellowship, um, who operated on a who's who of New York city and was one of the best, if not the best facial aesthetic surgeon I ever saw in my life. If you'd look at his. Google and Yelp reviews. You would have thought he was the worst surgeon around and he just didn't care because people that knew.

Knew he was the guy to go to, and then he just, he didn't even pay attention to it.

[00:15:08] Dr. Sam Rhee: Well, so, just for interest, like, I was just curious, so I just pulled up RealSelf, and I will read the first review for all three of you guys that comes up, uh, we can see what they say. They don't know about this, I just decided to do this right now. Alright, for Sam, Jejurikar. It is improved quality of life, mommy makeover.

I waited until later in life to have my mommy makeover and was extremely concerned that it did, it would do more harm than good due to now having reflux. This condition was so bad. I literally had to sit nearly straight up to sleep. I consulted with Dr. J on and off for three years before finally deciding to move forward with the surgery.

Let me tell you, I can now lay flat to sleep. Dr. J took extreme care to tailor my procedure, to fit my needs. And my quality of life is better than ever. because of his skill and experience. Plus his right hand, Coletti is phenomenal. In fact, his entire staff is very courteous and professional. I highly recommend Dr.

Jej. So there you go. That's a,

[00:16:02] Dr. Lawrence Tong: Good job. Yes.

[00:16:05] Dr. Sam Jejurikar: Yeah. That's a nice patient. I know her well.

[00:16:07] Dr. Lawrence Tong: Played the long game in that one.

[00:16:09] Dr. Sam Jejurikar: Yeah.

[00:16:12] Dr. Sam Rhee: Salp,

[00:16:13] Dr. Sam Jejurikar: That's my right hand. My right hand is Colette, by the way. That's how you say that word.

[00:16:18] Dr. Sam Rhee: oh, sorry. Coletti, sorry. You know, I'm thinking of the general surgeon back at Michigan. Her name was Coletti, but that was her last name. Colette. Yes. She, uh, Thanks for the correction. Dr. Pacella. One word describes my experience. Grateful. I have had a few prior surgeries performed by Dr.

Pacella. His most recent was a lip lift. Dr. Pacella is a gifted doctor who listens carefully, evaluates your concerns, and provides you all the options to closely obtain the best results possible. He and his staff are patient, caring, and extremely proficient. I am grateful for having a comfortable procedure with such a compassionate and experienced doctor and his team.

His aesthetic results are awesome, but most importantly, my confidence has improved as well. Thank you so much. There you go.

[00:17:04] Dr. Lawrence Tong: Bravo.

[00:17:04] Dr. Salvatore Pacella: She's been a patient for many, many years, so. Love it.

[00:17:14] Dr. Sam Rhee: and then Dr. Tong, best surgeon in Canada. Is being the best surgeon in Canada, like, you know, okay. Dr.

[00:17:22] Dr. Sam Jejurikar: that that analogy, if a tree falls in the forest, there's no one around?

[00:17:29] Dr. Sam Rhee: mean,

[00:17:30] Dr. Sam Jejurikar: Just kidding.

[00:17:30] Dr. Sam Rhee: It would be better if he was the best surgeon in the world, but I guess she's in Canada, so that's all she knows. Dr. Tong is an absolute miracle worker. From my first consultation visit of post op care, I've been treated with professionalism and compassion. He took the time to understand my reasons for the procedure and patiently addressed all my questions.

He's the only surgeon I consulted as his expertise and attention convinced me during the first First visit. He was honest about expectations. A sign of a great surgeon. Shout out to his team as well. Jean and Shannon, who had ensured I was comfortable throughout the process. The post-surgery results have been exactly what I hoped for, and the best part, I haven't even reached the end result yet.

She hasn't reached her final form. Those skillful hands should be insured. Dr. Tong is a top-notch surgeon observing of every accolade. Thank you, doctor for your incredible work.

[00:18:18] Dr. Sam Jejurikar: That's amazing. That's like three reviews in one. That's like three five star reviews. That's so

[00:18:21] Dr. Sam Rhee: Man, I wish I had a patient that

[00:18:23] Dr. Salvatore Pacella: hands, hands insured or registered as deadly weapons?

[00:18:29] Dr. Lawrence Tong: Both. Both. Ha

[00:18:31] Dr. Sam Rhee: on the situation.

[00:18:33] Dr. Sam Jejurikar: Well, Dr. Rhee, thank you for not reading the worst reviews on all three of us. Thank

[00:18:37] Dr. Salvatore Pacella: I was just going to say that's the next thing we should do is read the absolute worst reviews.

[00:18:41] Dr. Sam Jejurikar: I can't, I can't handle that. No.

[00:18:50] Dr. Sam Rhee: up, you click on it, and you see what comes up, and that was just the first ones that came up. So, it

[00:18:55] Dr. Salvatore Pacella: What about yours? What about yours?

[00:18:58] Dr. Lawrence Tong: Read us yours,

[00:18:59] Dr. Salvatore Pacella: yours. And then that's a good one to end on, I think.

[00:19:04] Dr. Sam Rhee: all right, let's see what it says here. He's okay. No, I'm just kidding. Uh, it's not, he's, he's pretty mid. All right. Uh,

[00:19:17] Dr. Salvatore Pacella: Results were bustin completely skibbity.

[00:19:20] Dr. Sam Rhee: come see, come see. Yeah, just give it, uh, exactly what I was looking for. I give Rhee Plastic Surgery five stars. Dr. Rhee is the best. I came across Dr. Rhee online. I read reviews and looked at before and after photos for liposuction, 360 and BBL.

Some surgeon prices were simply outrageous and I was not impressed by those before and afters. I saw a huge difference in Dr. Rhee's and his price was much more realistic. He is kind, respectful, and professional. I trust him 100%. I felt very comfortable and safe. He has even done procedures on two of my sisters.

I feel comfortable in my clothing. My waist is small. My butt is fuller. Since my first surgery went so well, I chose to have a breast lift a year after my BBL. I can even go without a bra if I want. I love my results. They were exactly what I was looking for. So I'll, You know, it's funny, I know this patient well, and she's lovely, and I think that's the thing, we really, I mean, we like our patients, and the patients that, uh, you know, have, are really sort of dedicated and positive, like, it, it warms our hearts, I can see, Sam, Sal, Larry, like, It just feels good when you know your patients and, and, uh, and they can be so complimentary for you.

Like, that's really cool. I like that. Anyways, so don't, uh, so, uh, I guess the summary is, uh, if it's too perfect, it's gotta be, uh, fake unless it's Larry Tong's review. That's a hundred percent

[00:20:41] Dr. Lawrence Tong: Ha ha ha

[00:20:41] Dr. Sam Rhee: Uh,

[00:20:42] Dr. Lawrence Tong: ha.

[00:20:43] Dr. Sam Rhee: um, uh, be careful with, uh, People who make you sign NDAs or put pressure on you to write reviews, uh, and listen and our advice, basically take it in aggregate.

No one's going to be perfect. Uh, we are all that. That's just the nature of the business, but it can be helpful. So do you guys have any other comments here? All right. Awesome. Well, you, you guys are awesome surgeons and, uh, I look forward to our next meeting. Thank you so much guys. Take care.